Interview with Author and Carnivore Health and lifestyle coach Philip Escott

okay all right uh welcome everybody uh today i'm very pleased to have uh guest phil escott um who was actually a vegan guru who had much respect for because he after trying to kill himself on a vegan diet ended up finding carnivore and actually reversing his issues uh he's a author of many many books including um arthritis the best thing that ever happened to me and red pill revolution and and many more have absolutely nothing to do with carnivore which is great um phil welcome to the show thank you so much for coming thanks anthony vegan guru yeah i never really shouted about that too much i did about the vegetarian and the ayurvedic thing but uh i think by the time i tried veganism i was so ill already and it made me even worse i wasn't going to shout about it yeah well that that's um yeah i mean that's interesting you know transition into it anyway you know because you you were saying that you actually wrote several books on plant-based nutrition in the 90s so this was something that you were very much into when you were doing yoga and so forth and just because being part of that culture you know it was all about being plant-based and and so you got into that if i'm not mistaken can you tell us about that how you basically uh came came around to the to the light yeah sure well i i think it's sort of through the 80s and 90s i got very involved in the whole indian spiritual thing and meditation and whatever and they do tend to preach that uh vegetarianism you have this absolutely ridiculous thing that you know you're not going to get enlightened or you're not going to ascend if you eat any animal flesh and it's it's such incredible nonsense um you know there's just just like like you know there's probably 95 to 99 in anything that's put out there and it's the same with the whole spiritual thing there's some great gems in it but most of it's rubbish but i got caught up in that and i started to study the whole um western interpretation of ayurveda which is uh you know ayurvedic medicine and it's it's it's completely misinterpreted because like we said on our last chat it's um you know they they they say that it's meat is is like nectar it's like amrit it's the meat of freshly killed animals the most nourishing thing for the body but i never read the proper texts back then i just read you know a few westerners who misinterpreted it and sort of translated that into my own books and you know when you do that kind of thing you you notice certain little benefits but all you're doing really is sort of balancing one plant toxin against another and sort of using things at different times of year so you know the results were very sketchy um and then after doing that you know i i got more into training and owned my own gym and ran it in the late 90s and i got pretty big nowhere near as big as you you monster but i got i got big and uh and i thought um you know yeah i'm on the right track here i know how to train you get these people training real heavy and abbreviated and all that got a load of people big but when they'd say how do i get my abs out i never really knew it was always that calorie-controlled nonsense you know yeah and um i never got really lean i was never fat but i never got really lean i never never got a good set of abs even though i was writing for mountain bike mags and right doing loads of cardio as well and all that nonsense and um then the first time i got a set of abs was lying on the sofa eating tons of fat and meat uh completely crippled at 50 years old 10 years ago and there was a set of abs and i thought right everything i thought was wrong and but before that a couple years before that um i i just i'd had a load of niggles you know for years i'd been living on um um non-steroidal anti-inflammatories and painkillers and all sorts because i always had a really painful back and then one foot started to really hurt all the bones in the foot and then then i got iritus and they said have you got some awful arthritic arthritic condition you know and i said no because i didn't know really then i just thought i had a painful back you know and i was always a chiropractor so much that i'd learned almost all their moves and in the gym i used to be able to just adjust everybody because i learned it and half my friends were chiropractors i spent so long there um but then um you know it was 2010 just come back from thailand a holiday in thailand and um one ankle just blew up and i thought i think this is an old injury that i had from um falling off a climbing wall years ago and really wrecking that that ankle and um i thought i didn't think much of it i thought it's a bit weird but then the other ankle blew up and then the knee came up like a balloon and then my neck went i couldn't move that you know and it just went through all my body and eventually you know they said oh it might be reactive arthritis and that'll disappear and but we'll have to wait and see i mean surely isn't every arthritis reactive arthritis reacting to something right but they don't know so anyway it didn't disappear and then i thought well i'll try their drugs and i tried some steroids and it's marvelous isn't it really because after three days you're kind of normal you're saying oh i'm cured and it's it's a absolute false hope um and then they i wouldn't take the methotrexate but they did say um you should take uh try sulfur salazine so i tried that and it took me back to my sort of overdosing on psilocybin mushroom days in 1979 and i just i ended up having these horrendous psycho experiences i'm not having that so i got rid of that as well and then i just thought well i've got to fix myself these people have no idea obviously yeah and um so i started first of all i started fasting and that does help you know obviously because you're not eating anything and you get this lovely remission from it and i just i thought well everything i've written in books everything i've um everything i've been taught is nonsense so i've got to throw it all out and i remember one day i found um a website called beyond vegetarianism and there were two guys running it two vegetarians and one of them had gone back to eating meat and one of them hadn't even though he knew it was in our ancestral diet and they pointed out that it was our ancestral diet and um we never we were never vegetarian and and that kind of got me thinking because i was never a militant vegan or close-minded or anything and i thought this is really interesting so i started to look more into it and found natasha campbell mcbride and her gaps diet and that just blew me away i thought right you know i've got to do this because at the time i'd spent like a year um to try experimenting with raw veganism because i thought okay well what's really going to cure me if i'm plant-based is to go more plant-based and then raw plant-based and it was awful i mean all the muscle disappeared um and and i ended up i was i was something like 210 pounds something like that i think and then i ended up at like 130 and lost an enormous amount of weight and then when i finally went keto and started doing cold thermogenesis um i dropped another stone as we call it you know and i was about 120 pounds at five foot ten which is really emaciated jesus it was very weird huh as a jesus that that's extremely thin yeah i know it was it was very weird to see because i've been i've been used to either being muscular or being a fat bastard and so to me it looked really weird you know i was either one or the other um you know depending if i was training and exercising or not and it was uh yeah it was kind of alarming but i discovered natasha campbell mcbride and i thought right i'm gonna go for that and i've been doing loads and loads of fasting and eventually i was just wasting away i've got to eat something and so i remember one day i uh i thought right i've got this down and i had some bone broth and i uh i roasted a chicken and i got a load of butter and i thought i broke an 11 day water fast and i've been feeling amazing i've been running around you know everything had gone in that 11 day water fast and i remember it was the spring summer and i put this rug down on the lawn and i thought i'm going to eat this outside it's going to be the best meal ever you know but i gotta take it easy but i was so hungry i thought you know that was so good i'm gonna have another i'm gonna have another load i couldn't get up it hit me that quickly the joints inflamed honestly in a few minutes oh wow and i thought oh my god what have i done i now i've got nothing to eat it was probably the real low point and now i realize it's when the gut's that leaky chicken and butter no good it's very inflammatory it's walking corn as jack crews called it i think um and and so eventually i figured it out you know long story short and even with some of the veg but very few veg i i kind of turned it round and i wrote that book on how i fixed it i think it was 2014 or so but then after going carnivore in 2015 and having been carnivore ever since it's just just amazing you know it's it's everything's gone the information's gone everything um feeling much better without the last few veg obviously i just know i didn't i never liked them you know they're horrible things and um and on the days when i didn't cook them i thought you know i feel better anyway so i just didn't bother but uh yeah it was it was a a great journey but um it was one thing was interesting something that you said uh on one of your shows um that you you i think it was on my maybe did you just hardly train or haven't been in the gym for three months or whatever yeah i had an experience like that with um with with this where finally in the winter of 2013 2014 i got enough information out that i could go train again and i just had like an olympic bar and a trap bar and some and some olympic plates in my garage and all i did was like 20 rep um deadlifts and uh you know cleaning presses and and chins and that was it and i was training maybe sort of eight minutes twice a week that kind of doug mcguff thing you know and honestly i mean i i put on about 28 pounds in that winter now a lot of that was muscle i would think almost even maybe 20 pounds of it and it sounds impossible but i knew how to train you how to train really sort of brutally and i had the memory of it i guess so i don't know if everybody can do that but i haven't trained much since then i just do a bit of body weight every now and again but none of that muscle's gone on carnival you know it just kind of maintains it you know it's nothing like the muscle i had before in the late 90s but and you've inspired me actually i'm getting back into it i'm going to start really going for it again see what a real old codger can do when i took over my gym i was 35 and i thought i'm an old man and now i'm thinking well right now i am an old man let's see what we did but uh it was it was yeah it was amazing that just it stayed it stayed absolutely and i never had any problems with losing it but um since then it's it's been it's been an amazing journey i started uh where where i i discovered you when you popped up on my facebook group 100 carnivore and beyond facebook group sharing some amazing stuff and um i started that off for like five people from a paleo group who said oh you've gone carnival um do you fancy starting a group help us out with it yeah sure and that was amazing i only started it for about five people and it suddenly grew i think there's about 15 000 now or something yeah but the heat we've seen and i'm sure you have too i mean the stories are amazing all these useless anecdotes with nothing to back them up but you know and the clients that that i i i consult with all over the world and wonderful things i've seen the most beautiful healing stories in all sorts of conditions especially the arthritic ones that i understand very well because i understand all the little tweaks and ins and outs of them you know that it's not just like just go and eat some meat sometimes it can be a little more than that but it's uh yeah it's been an amazing journey really out of it and and i sort of think every day that that i can still play drums all the time and i can run up and down stairs and i can chase my kids around you know and there was a time when i thought i'd never be able to do that again yeah i mean it's um obviously you know when you were doing such profound arthritis like obviously in the medical world that usually just goes one direction it only gets worse and that's that's in spite of things like methyltrexate and other biologicals that then demars and so forth that that try to mitigate and can sometimes reverse that disease but it takes a huge toll on your body and generally it's going to get worse over time as well and so being able to just absolutely reverse that is fantastic um i was going to go back like i said the rheumatologist wasn't interested when i went to see him he was angry yeah yeah very strange that attitude i think yeah i think so as well you know it's just because you know you get you get trained to certain things like well this is this is what the evidence shows and it's like well what evidence you know because you're seeing evidence in front of your face and a lot of people just well you know where's the clinical trial where's the clinical trial it's just like well you know if you start seeing patterns emerging you start seeing people getting better you know maybe think and say like maybe i should do a clinical trial and see what's see what's going on here maybe be a scientist and you know start collecting some data yourself uh because this obviously is helping a lot of people and and in fact there are clinical trials and there are studies and so forth going back 150 years tons of these things we've just we've just thrown them by the wayside because they contain meat we're talking about meat-based diets and high fat and everyone knows that fat cholesterol causes heart diseases so obviously you just have to throw those out so actually the studies are there the evidence is there in in the in the medical literature in the journals and so forth but we we've just ignored these things you go back to the 50s this is a very different you know body of scientific literature as a you know to as compared to probably you know the 90s or the 2000s now it's starting to come back the other way because we have a lot of studies showing that you know cholesterol is has nothing to do with heart disease except possibly being protective of it and so now everything's being being sort of reversed that way but this is stuff we knew for quite some time in the scientific literature and then just in just uh you know folklore and so forth and uh so it's it's good that we're sort of rediscovering that and that people like yourself can just do that through their own personal journey and then help other people um did you did you come to like be a full carnivore just just on your own progression just trying different foods and see what works for you or did you you know did get influenced by anybody or was it purely your own sort of journey no well i kind of did it quite early in this cycle of it i mean i i think i found a website called zero carb zen and there was a few people doing it on there it's a good little website it's got some interest interesting info articles on you know why people have problems with pork and the vitamin c myth and all of that kind of thing yeah which sort of puts people off they think i'm never going to get i'm going to get scurvy i've never i've never seen anyone with scurvy yet but no um so i i found that but there was there was none of this sort of you know big shout about it with michaela and sean and all of that kind of thing um so so i just i i just found that i i didn't need it i i i felt so much better without it and i've never liked it and you always get that tray you know it's just called the compost tray in our fridge and you put stuff in there and then it rots and then you put it in a bin and then it then then you replace it and i'm just glad to see the back of that you know yeah it's and and i bring my kids up like that you know you met my little one on our last chat and he keeps arguing that he's had broccoli once but i don't remember yeah yeah he's uh he's not had vegetables you know they're never in the house i don't mind if they through i generally put it in their lunch box so that the dinner ladies don't report me to social services or something for a bit of fruit and they have a bit of uh and they have a load of meat yeah and they'll eat the meat and then the fruit it hardly ever gets eaten it just comes back and it goes in the bin so it's a waste of money anyway but you know and then they'll shout for some chocolate and i don't mind that if they're if everything else they're eating is meat they can have that now and again i don't mind but uh you know they're not sick but uh yeah it's it it didn't there was nothing really that influenced me but then i started to look into all the just the anthropology really and it just made sense because i think if you study i keep saying to people if you study sort of circadian biology and you study sort of the cycles of nature really and what nature would give you at a certain time of year in your latitude and then you um and then you study anthropology what we've actually eaten from the bone isotope records and whatever look at indigenous tribes and what they eat and then i think that the the whole rabbit hole of deuterium i was going to say to you you know you've yeah i won't i won't go on about it this time but you've got to get my good friend from the red pill guys graham norbury on some time and and go down that rabbit hole because he's utterly brilliant on that he just he's got one of those science boffin heads that i don't have you know then he can explain it all but it's really interesting how it ties it in but if you look at those then it's and the plant toxins of course and then it's just it's a no-brainer isn't it you can see what's happened with this horrible misinformation i just find it so sad that you know the mainstream has pushed this five a day the vegans are pushing all this complete nonsense and it it it just goes it filters down to other people i it's what i love is when somebody comes to me who's been eating mcdonald's and fries and stuff and they say right i've got psoriatic arthritis or something and i say well you can eat steak all day and they go great but when you get a vegan come to you and i'm really crippled and you think i've got three months of deprogramming here before they're even gonna consider it you know uh that's sad but yeah it holds up a lot of people's healing yeah i've found that um yeah if people will engage and and actually have a serious conversation even if they even if they are really on the other side of it and you know well what about this and what about this and that you know the truly you know they think that they have a lot of solid information on the vegan side of things i find that if they will actually engage even if it's aggressively um i can get them and i have i have a hundred percent kill rate so far for vegans and vegetarians that in in just personal personal sort of one-on-one sort of debate and and uh and discussion and wow the vegans yeah yeah i had um i had one i think i mentioned this she was finishing her phd in nutrition and we just went point for point study for study over actually course of you know days and so forth we were texting and talking and so forth and it finally got to the point where she just was sort of stunned silence and just said to me my entire education was a lie you know it's a lie like i know it's a lie you've proven it to me you show me the studies you showed me the evidence like this was a lie i don't even know if i can work as a nutritionist because it's a lie because as a nutritionist you have to pitch the textbook and the textbook is pitching low-fat plant-based diet high carbs high in sugar and she was like i know that that's wrong i know this is causing people harm now like i don't i don't even know if i can work as a nutritious now she doesn't she actually became like a health coach like a life coach sort of thing and you would use her credentials to um you know give her some credence but you know i've found that people can be receptive because so many people you know like you you got into it for a very specific reason you thought it was the right thing to do you around a lot of people are influencing you and a lot of people do that as well they go vegan or vegetarian for you know a good reason to them you know they and they you know think about it no one just changes their entire life like that goes in such a restrictive way of eating just just because you know they've thought about this they've worked on it's like maybe for their health maybe for the environment maybe for animal rights and so forth all of which can be uh actually shown to be beneficial on a carnivore diet as opposed to a vegan diet you know paradoxically it seems in some of these cases but because they've come they've generally come from an honest place if you have an honest discussion and show them the evidence they can come around it's it's the people that you know see or maybe maybe have made a name for themselves in that community and now basically if they if they go back on it they're going to lose their their income and so they're the ones that really just die hard on this and they just they just won't listen to sense maybe they know full well but they're still going to pitch it in a way and a lot of these people do get caught they get caught you know these vegan influencers and so forth with hundreds of thousands of followers just talking about veganism vegan that how healthy and wonderful it is they get caught eating you know you know sandwiches and hamburgers and things like that because they're just you know they're wasting away and so you know hopefully you know the more voices like yours and um and so forth that get out there just more people will see this and see this because a lot of people have a vested interest in their in their own lives and health and a lot of people think i speak to doctors all the time who are generally overweight and they say oh well people are just you know fats they just don't listen to the advice they just eat too much fat and do all this and like no that's the problem is they did listen and the advice was bad and so now that we're getting more more better advice out there you know people are people are really benefiting from this and it's really good to see um you have gone through quite a lot of other other health issues as well and and with your clients and even with yourself and with your mother have even uh addressed and benefited recovery from things like cancer is that right yes i've um i that was a great story with my mom um basically she um i was looking after her for ages just one sec little little peter's kicking this football around making a proper racket their school's been shut because of the storms and so he's kicking a football around in the living room yeah yes my mum she was um when she was in her 90s we um she said to me one day i've got this lump in my breast i've been looking after her she had a stroke in 96 or so when she was on statins of course and uh since then i just threw all the meds in the bin i didn't even know what i was doing back then but i just had an intuition i thought these are no good and she was in a wheelchair she couldn't walk she was on that hideous um osteoporosis med that they would take once a week i forget what it was called and it just made her feel so sick she'd have to stay in bed for a week and then the dentist started to discover that this was rotting the bones in the in in people's jaws and so it was doing exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to do yeah and she was on vioxx and she was on all kinds of awful things steroids everything she had um um what's it called uh csc some kind of copd i'll think about it i think what it was in a minute but um she uh she she just got so much better you know and in her 90s she was picking my kids up running around with them and whatever and um then she said i've got this lump in my breast i said all right let's check it out and it was really big you know i mean it was a good sort of six centimeters across really really tough jesus and the skin was starting to go you know right and so i thought well okay let's get we we'd already got rid of the plants about a year before um but she probably had it for about eight years or something i should think just never told me never mentioned it probably never even noticed it you know so many people don't notice their cancer for so long and then they notice it and then the chemo finishes them off pretty quick right yeah but but she anyway she uh she she had this lump and um so with the gastroenterologist story that i i put up at some point i think i told you or whatever with you know he agreed with me that she should be on this sort of gaps type diet and high fat and whatever and that stopped all the reflux and issues like that and so i just sat down and when she got diagnosed with this and i sat down and and and showed her the truth about cancer or the first program of it now i i think that guy's a bit off base because you know he's always going on about plant-based stuff and he does have some people who've had reversals on there and whatever and and people do it it tends to come back later when you do that but um do it that way round but at least it showed her that people had done it in some other way and she said let's go for it so i said okay let's do it you know and we got a completely carnivore except for the occasional bit of greek yogurt and berries and and um she she went complete carnivore pretty much and then i tried the um the the proper rick simpson oil on her you know and so i went and bought it and i realized it's just so absurd that you can get seven years for that because it's uh it's it's sort of processed they class it as a class a drug absolutely insane so i was buying her this stuff you know and and um just giving her little bits and whatever but she was getting really mashed and she had this little flat nearby um we used to live in the same big house but it just became too much for a while looking after her and whatever so go to this little flat close by his little apartment and uh i i went around there you know and one day she was sweeping the lawn and i thought what are you doing and she went i don't know and i thought i can't leave her alone really stoned all day like she was so stoned and it but it wasn't it was actually reducing but um i thought i can't do that so i thought we'll try something else we took her off that and um and then it sort of stabilized a bit but it wasn't really going away and we tried everything all the essiac tea and and all the reishi mushrooms and all that kind of thing really throwing everything at it nothing really worked and then one day i had this intuition and i just thought so many times i've heard about people with fibrocystic breast syndrome just painting breasts with iodine and um and taking iodine going on an iodine protocol and this reverses it there was a friend of mine who wrote for my blog you know he wrote she wrote an article on this great musician actually and she wrote under a pseudonym for my blog because she said that when she she went to to hospital with all these uh lumps none of them were cancerous but said it was like a bag of marbles she had more more lumps than anybody had ever seen in there and she just kept painting it with iodine and they went away she didn't take any medication and she didn't even do an iodine protocol drinking it i don't think but um i just thought well hang on if this has worked for that and it's working for these hormonal things for women and you know there's so many thyroid conditions around that seem to be really fixed by this you know replenishing the iodine let's give it a go so i put her on an iodine protocol and it was for about three months and i'd read that um uh it didn't work it often didn't work while you were on it but when you tailed off it often at two or three months after that the the tumor just disappeared and i thought well okay maybe it's worth a go and you know the oncologist her oncologist who kept trying to get her to take drugs and she wouldn't and was getting very frustrated with her um and me because obviously he thought i was a complete lunatic and so he he was saying you know well we probably have to uh operate at some point you know and then i i actually gave up after that idea protocol i i'd kind of given up and i thought well maybe i'll i'll just take him take her down and say you know can you do this under a local if if it ulcerates because she's not going to take a general anaesthetic now and he said yeah sure we can do that but i'd rather you took these pills you know these sort of ones that dissolve these hormonal tumors um because she had one little one on the lung or something little one on the liver and we then that can be a gauge as to whether the other ones are disappearing as we get it to disappear with the drugs and so i said now we're not going down that route because she did try them for about a week and there was loads of forums of real pain in ovaries and womb and whatever and people sort of having very weakness in their legs and so i thought well all right i'm open to anything try it for a week try it for a week she he said no it's totally safe and everything indian doctor and i've researched and i said you know this stuff's been banned in india when i took it no i didn't know that i said yeah because of all these issues that you're claiming don't happen i found forums full of women saying tremendous pain here you know a pelvic area loss of of of function of the legs and so what happened she was on her for a week and then i went round there and she'd fallen over in the bathroom broken her wrist really badly you know i'm like no right that's it that's enough of this stuff you know she'd already said that she was starting to get pains down in the pelvic area and and so it was like a week and so i left i got got her off those things and then i thought okay well i've given up at least we can get this out on a local and then i just forgot about it for a while i just said to her look just i i wasn't looking at it i wasn't painting the idea nothing we'd finished all that and and and i said okay well let's um just tell me if if it ulcerates through the skin if it gets painful or whatever and and then we'll see if we can get this taken off and this went on for a long time i thought well what's happening and then one day she said it's going away and i said no i i i can't believe you know let's have a look and honestly i mean you can see the pics on that little video i've got where it's reversing you know some vegans have come to me and said you reversed the pictures because that could never work but uh yeah it was horrible and sort of uh like uh purple and coming through the skin and then it all went back to the skin went back to normal and the the tumor started shrinking and she was fine now unfortunately about two years after that she got two bouts of um of pneumonia and the second one took her but the the the breast cancer never did and it was shrinking all the time and i'd whether it would have gone or not i'm not that concerned i mean maybe it leaves some lump somewhere or something the lumps are not the problem right the process is the problem you know so but anyway well as you can see all the skin came back to normal and whatever and and the lump reduced a lot and uh and and i'd like to have seen the the combination of that but we didn't get a chance um but uh yeah it was it was lovely and as i said it's one of the most satisfying moments of my life when that oncologist turned around said how on earth did you do that it was lovely totally disarmed he was actually a lovely guy he wasn't one of those arrogant guys he really did think that i was mad but he was kind of cool with it and do you know what this is what i find with dogs the nearer they get to like emergency room docks or surgeons the more open they are if they if they're if their livelihood doesn't depend on the drug peddling you know and he was more of a surgical oncologist and so he was he would sort of chat with me and he'd humor me and he'd laugh we'd have a laugh about it you know and he's going you're nuts it's never going to work and i just go yeah okay you know he never got angry so to his credit but he was completely disarmed when he saw that and i just love to see it i'd love to see it again and again these docs waking up and just you know with to add to the amazing knowledge that you've got from medical school and then filter out what is great knowledge and what is rubbish is so important these days i think yeah and and that's that's part of the thing is you have to be open-minded uh you know i was told in my first few months of medical school that you know the the information and and understanding of medicine and how how everything works is so fast-paced that by the time we graduated medical school everything we learned was going to be out of date and so you just had to you had to keep track of things you had to stay on top of things and so you had to have an open mind as well and so yeah and you know i i noticed this too uh you know doctors depending on where they are in their in their training medical students will just listen to anything a senior says as like something coming out of the bible because they just they just don't know anything and they're just like okay this is someone else they they're gonna know everything um interns and sort of first second year doctors same way they're just trying to soak up information then you start getting you know a few years after that and people start solidifying because they're doing exams or doing boards or doing all sorts of things and basically it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong it matters if it's in the book because they're taking an exam and so everything that's out of the book that's that's the gospel and so if it goes against that a lot of people are just like no no this is what it says in the book i'm not listening to that not actually that that many people because you you can actually put forward a pretty convincing argument um you know if you if you have experience with that which i have i've only met a few people that are just you know not really receptive to that most people are but then you get the people that are past that and they're um [Music] you know they've gotten to a stage in their career that they've seen things being turned on their heads and they were doing things for 20 years and they found out no that's killing people don't do that and they've had to reverse that and so they understand that you know things change all the time and as long as someone is providing you know good evidence um you know you should listen to it and but you know you always say i'm like okay where's your evidence how do you back that up whatever and if you do they go oh okay fair enough um i've always been dealing with a lot of surgeons doing that so that's that could be why i've gotten a lot more receptive people and as i think i mentioned you know last time we spoke you know the gastroenterologists really got their knickers in a twist when i was telling their patients about um you know they were asking me is there anything i can do to avoid surgery for crohn's i was like well yeah there are these studies that actually show that if you alter your diet and go on an elemental diet you you can it has a better efficacy than steroids and it keeps people in remission and so forth and you know i mentioned uh dr j.h salisbury who was curing people with this since the 1800s with a pure red meat and water diet and all the way up until 1975 there was a book called the stone age diet again a gastroenterologist basically arguing you my profession doesn't need to exist if you don't eat plants and you know and and and then we we completely forgot about that because in 1977 the usda said cholesterol causes heart disease end of story all meat is bad all fats bad just get rid of it and and all this massive body of knowledge just got thrown out the window and so i you know i meant i would mention these to people because i don't think it's ethical to just say no no no surgery is your only option when clearly it isn't and i never would like to i would never want to pressure anyone into trying anything i just say look here's some information here's some things you may not have known about and here's some resources you look it up you do your own research and if it works great surgery is always on the table surgery can always happen you know you're not in a rush you don't have a perforated bowel you know this this can this can wait and they got absolutely pissed and you know the surgeons yeah haven't so yeah maybe that maybe that is a a good way of thinking about it people that are dependent on the prescription and that's only and that's the way you think you know you have this problem here's this pill to fix it and that's that's really how we're taught in medical school you know and like there's a problem this is the solution you know it's a shame because you know when you get diagnosed with something and i've been in that position and you go in somewhere and they just say you're going to have this for the rest of your life and you have to take these medications and it it's it's awful they they go out of there you know i did it's just like you you're crushed yeah i mean i knew i went out of there going i will find a way out of this but right now it looks desperate most people will just go i'm gonna do exactly what the doc says give me more pills more pills because they're terrified i was no less terrified really because i thought my god that's it that's all my mobility gone everything i like doing involves a lot of activity and i'm not going to be able to do that again but so now i think the really important thing is when i when i do a consult with somebody you know you you get right into it you take all their cases you find out everything everything from you know have they got amalgam fillings have have they had a childhood injections what what have they had you know um what have they been eating what stresses have they had through their childhood all of these things mount up and you can get a picture and the docs can't do that you know you've got like five to 15 minutes or whatever with them and they don't know how to take it anyway i just had to my partner my mrs here has graves disease and you know she's controlling that with carnivore and and iodine and all sorts but her get her her um endocrinologist you know i had to write in this long letter because he said i want to bring your partner in because you won't have your thyroid cut out and i said that you know you got the wrong one here to sit down and try and convince that she should have a thyroid taken out or irradiated with you know radioactive iodine and put her at risk of throat cancer in future and dependent on thyroxine and whatever so um i wrote him this letter and i had to say listen i'm not coming into the hospital because i'm going to have to wear a muzzle i've never worn one not for one second i'm not going to wear one so but i will write you this letter um and i i wrote him this thing and it was a long one you know i i like to waffle yeah the gist of it really was that i i think you know it was malpractice really that you haven't asked her anything about a diet anything about her lifestyle and you haven't even figured out that she grew up in arusha with massive amounts of fluoride in the water which is you know a horrendous halide that will stick in in the thyroid and cause horrible damage i mean she's she had so much fluoride when she was young because of the water supply and so many people who grow up in arusha and tanzania do um they get fluorosis you know she's got like little brown marks on her teeth she's got her teeth are great there's no there's not a filling there but uh you know and she's coming up 50 or whatever but she's uh you know she's she's got fluorosis and so you'd see that and you'd go now that is a real marker plus 20 years vegetarian you know before she turned around um plus that you know it really is a marker and something you need to know if there's a thyroid condition but you didn't even ask and i'm like listen man there are there are these th you're saying never ever ever take iodine you know never take iodine if you've got graves i mean it fry even frightened me and i've seen through the cholesterol things through all the crap that's out there because but because they were saying you're gonna have a thyroid storm and it could kill you within a day or whatever and and okay it took us a long time you know we have this great friend called carno pine who's uh who has a hiding group and he's on the uh on our 100 carnival facebook group with some great info and also dr jeremy ayers who who i work with in the red pill guys and the human unleashed and and they just you know they had to really give us the proper evidence now this is not going to kill you you know in the old manuals that iodine is a cure for for thyroid storm so why is it going to cause it so anyway we eventually got the the bottle to do it and actually you know 10 times or more the doses that my mum was taking really piled it in and within a week that all the thyroid levels were perfect it's like come on man she didn't die and now she's been on the eye the real excessive iodine protocol you know for a couple of years now absolutely fine well let's see 2019 yeah still absolutely fine and so there's all this this miss uh it's the fear-mongering that gets me you know if somebody comes to me they go you know or rather if they go to the dock and and you say right you've got six months to live you know and they're they're often dead in in six weeks or something because the fear gets them if the chemo doesn't yeah but with with me it's it's like somebody comes to me and goes and they're obviously really depressed first time and and they'll say right i'm really you know i've got my joints they don't work oh my god it's it's so painful and and i'll just be smiling there and going honestly you have no idea what a blessing this is i say you know it's hard now but you're going to come through this and you're not only going to get better but you're going to be better than you were before because you're going to have all this amazing knowledge for your family and stuff like that oh i'm so excited for your journey you know you're up but it's going to be okay because this is the way out imagine if the doc said that p had the difference in the mood when people would walk out you know after those 15 minutes but after like hour and a half with me you can see them really smiling at the end they've got hope finally because the docs had never given a hope yeah because they're only told that those meds will will do it and and i think that's one of the worst things is this unbelievable fear-mongering because yeah we do mess up we do get in terrible agony it's not going to be fun for a while but you are going to get through it and that's that's what i love you know and seeing each concept they're smiling more and more you know well you know that's the thing i think it's i think it comes from a basic lack of understanding of of the causative nature of these illnesses you know we don't always look at that in medicine you know because we don't necessarily know what what the cause is we thought that cholesterol caused heart disease that was crap and you know in these other things as well we just don't really know we're getting a lot more information now and it's showing to be you know things like you know lectins and how they you know bind and different sorts of chaos they cause in your body and so forth and many many many other things that are you know from plants and plant-based nutrition and so forth and how this affects your body causing leaky gut letting these bacteria and other you know poisons from the plants that normally pass through your body now they get in your into your system and cause havoc they don't understand that there's a disease process going on underneath all of this they just think well here's the problem this is the best thing we have to mitigate that problem as opposed to thinking okay what the hell is causing this does this just happen is it purely genetic like huntington's disease it's just like that's it you have this gene you're going to get this thing well we know that's not true because we have people even even genetically linked issues they have you know what's called penetrance you have someone who has the gene and only 60 of people that have the gene get the genetic disorders okay so you know there is something else going on there's there's an environmental trigger you have it you know there's certain things are purely genetic right few but like say like huntington's you get huntington's the gene for huntington's like you're gonna get huntington's by and large and then you have purely environmental where like someone chops off your arm when you're 30. there's nothing in your jeans that was going to uh you know it you know caused you to do that except maybe you know being a dick or something like that and like everything else is in between you know you have a genetic predisposition an environmental trigger but if you have the gene but you don't get the trigger you don't get the disease you have to have both and you have the trigger but you don't have the gene you don't get the disease so most of these things are genetic trigger or genetic uh underlying uh disorder and and environmental trigger and people aren't thinking like that they're not thinking about okay what could be causing this what and you don't know what the gene is fine we haven't figured that one out yet but what about the environment what's going on with this person that's causing that you know that's something that you can do but we don't we don't get taught like that we don't train like that and so we think well here's this issue whatever the hell is causing it this is the pill that goes with it where you know you if you look a bit under the surface like you have like i have like dr baker has and and many many others um you know dr barry and so forth you start seeing that you know the the underpinning of all these diseases are basically just eating the wrong thing doing these things to yourself to harm yourself alcohol cigarettes drugs plants spinach kale horrible stuff and this is causing the disease and you remove that you remove these causative factors then you remove the problem and your body just gets back to business and until we as doctors start thinking like that again you know we're going to keep going down the same path you know if you want to keep doing getting the same results keep doing the same thing and unfortunately that's what we're doing that's what we've been doing for half a century and so it's very important to just keep pushing that idea that you know we need to just change the entire outlook and medicine and how we approach these sorts of things and once you get once you get all this environmental uh these all these environmental influences out of the way then you get back to just things going wrong you have genetic disorders you have accidents you have you know birth and you know childbirth and delivery and so forth you have infectious disease and you have poisonings that that's really it that was medicine for thousands and thousands and thousands of years those those five broad topics now it's all chronic disease it's all chronic disease that's the vast majority of what we do in medicine is treating chronic diseases but you know i think that still in those five categories but the poisoning you know we're getting poisoned and that's you know precipitating these diseases but they're not diseases this is this is a manifestation of poison in your body as evidenced by the fact that you remove the poison and the condition goes away this is a cause and effect relationship and so we've just blown up the poisoning side of things because we don't realize that we're being poisoned like you know like i said before like the romans you know back in ancient rome they all had lead pipes and got low-grade lead poisoning and people just think oh that's just that's just how you age you know your hair is supposed to bleed it's like no no it isn't that's not supposed to happen and people figured it out okay you know what the hell is going on here and they figured it out but for a while there people were screwed and they were just growing up generation generationally being screwed and then people just grew up going oh yeah that's normal but it's not normal look two generations back that was not normal that did not happen and that now people dismiss this that i was probably happening at the same same rate we just we just didn't notice it like yeah because everyone born before 1986 was an idiot you know that guy da vinci like he couldn't he couldn't you know sort his ass from a tea kettle you know like you know these people were brilliant people just because they didn't have a knife i i actually got into it with this guy he's uh he's a doctor um and he just approached me on instagram seemingly nicely saying oh you know you had this post about um you know about kids and things like that and there's actually an article written by a group of pediatricians that basically said vegan parents should have their kids taken away because they are harming their children and this was this was their opinion this wasn't mine and i just wrote an article just discussing uh childhood development and so forth and and and you know just giving the the facts and citing you know studies and so forth and so he just seemingly nicely and seemingly honestly you know cayman was talking to me about this sort of stuff and you know i said well you know first of all like you know if i if i thought i was harming my kids i would have a meeting meet you know without question you know not a problem like my i value my kids more than i value uh animals and so that's fine but you know what's but they're thriving they're doing great and all these sorts of things and i was just like great i'm really happy for that i genuinely am but are they you know are they developing to their genetic potential i mean how do you know that i mean they're doing fine that's an n1 trial like you you're looking at that it's doing fine well compared to what you know as any economist will tell you compared to what you know compared to other kids fine you're a doctor you're you're you're your wife is a doctor as well you know you got good genes your kids are going to get good genes you you can you understand how much the supplements and all the deficiencies and all these sorts of things great so your kid's going to be doing better than another vegan kid and you've got good genetic stock anyway what does that mean it means nothing what is that going to what's that kid going to do compared to itself and um you know he yeah he quickly turned to being you know just just have this facade of uh of geniality but was very passive aggressive very sort of backhanded comments and i just had enough with this guy and i just sort of you know went for his throat but like you know yeah um you know it makes him very aggressive doesn't it i mean i did the most aggressive people i've seen are vegans the things that i've had said to me i just have to laugh really i mean he used to really amuse me when sean you know sean baker on on his videos he used to always say uh now there's a prize for the best death threat for vegan death threat comments you know they just go crazy at him because i think they knew that finally sean was on there and he looked great and and you know and he was a doc as well and you know he could probably do absolutely 100 reps with gregor with one arm overhead it was it was like you know and obviously he's on to something but they wouldn't see it and then they got onto me at one point and and what about sean's blood results you remember when this came out i think it was on uh it was on what was his name um the paleo dude i've forgotten anyway his podcast and um rob wolf and he was like yeah and it went through his blood results and all that and and he had low testosterone and he had some sort of raised blood sugar or insulin or something and and he'd probably just been training or something and and they don't understand the the blood results from somebody who's carnival they're never really quite the same as other people's and i made so i had to make some video in the end just stop asking me about sean baker's blood results because it went on and on and i went and got my bloods done because the vegans were saying you're probably dying of diabetes or heart disease like sean baker yeah yeah right and so i thought well all right i'll do it but i thought i do have a bit of a worry i thought because i've got um for 30 years i was t total and every time i had blood results blood tests done they'd say are you an alcoholic you know well in the later years because they said you know your liver results are way off and i had fatty liver and i had cysts on the liver and um when i started to go keto and when i i also introduced liver flushing which is a bit the only bit of one of the thousand woo-woo things that i did when i was vegan that i still think has some value and i don't even know if it works as they say it does but it does do some interesting things but um i i did a bunch of those and you know the keto thing and then i went back for a scan on the liver well an ultrasound and i said have i still got fatty living i went no it's absolutely perfect and i said oh that's good how about the cysts and they said oh you haven't got any cysts oh brilliant they've gone and said well no you can't get rid of cysts you can't have had them and i said no really i did go and look at my my my medical result my medical record so over to the computer blah blah wow you did and this this this girl she was turning me over and over trying to look for these these sisters you know and couldn't find them it was like how did you do that and i said well i told her you know and and the liver flushing process but also the the ketosis isn't that dangerous she said and i said well dangerous said and you want me to take methotrexate and this is dangerous i said no it's not dangerous but um so anyway i cleaned out my liver and you know i would i would just take a sort of sip of alcohol and get really itchy and hated it and and you know all those 30 years or whatever i just couldn't really deal with it at all so i just didn't drink and then you know into into the carnival years when everything had had fixed itself i thought oh i'll try some wine and some brandy and stuff and i was like a teenager again and i thought right i'll go you know it's it's got to go soon i've it's it's tailed off but uh i had a good experiment on it i thought listen let's experiment with alcohol and i found as a carnivore i didn't get a hangover now please here's here's a disclaimer here i am not recommending alcohol right i i just decided it's my own choice and i thought i'm gonna have a go with it but i wouldn't get a hangover nothing i'd be able to bounce out of bed in the morning no problem whatsoever and then but because the vegans had asked me for this i thought well i i get i'm guessing my blood results are going to be fine ldl is going to be up where it should be yeah i should think you know everything else is going to be okay the triglycerides hdl will be balanced but i thought yeah i'll tell the truth you know about what's going on if the liver results come up dodgy because they were dodgy all my life and now i've been drinking which i never did before and so i went to get these tests done and and she said you know the the nurse was reading out the tests and she said oh well your ldl's up a bit here and i went well that's cool that's where i want it uh because i'm on a real high fat carnivore diet and she said uh oh excellent she said yeah that's fine you know all this is just a con to sell statins twice you figured it out and i thought that's wonderful and so then um i you know i said but it said she said everything else is perfect everything's fine and i said yeah well what about the liver results and i'm kind of bracing myself and just looked at and went perfect i thought well okay i've got away with it now i'm again you know it is it does other things it rips thymine out it rips the bee bits out it's not a good idea uh you know but uh but i experimented with it for a while because it was fun because i missed out on it in my youth um and uh but that was kind of interesting you know that i was plant-based and my liver was ruined and they were asking if i was an alcoholic and then i was drinking and really experimenting with it and my liver was perfect because of the carnivore diet because kid cleaned it out and you know i i'm i'm an idiot you know i take all the wrong terms in the book but i like i like to do these sort of crazy biohacks i've done enough with plants now that's enough but um but you know just anything that i can experiment with to prove that uh the theories are completely the opposite of what people think it's it's great by me but you know you're right as well you mentioned about the genetic thing you know and and of course the rheumatologists said to me well yeah you've got this arthritis because you've got this hla b27 thing going on you know and that's what happens and okay all right so you know five minutes googling and and and you can agree with them and you go yeah yeah you get that but then a little bit more digging and it's like 70 percent of people with this this hla b27 never get any sort of arthritis and say no they're definitely working on the wrong thing there so these you know they seem like gods when you go in there but they're really piecing together some really daft information and i always liking it to a a rubik's cube you know where you get like two or three sides right and then you can kind of look at it from a certain angle it looks like it holds up but you turn it round and it's it's all over the place a mess yeah and then they seem to sort of turn around start peeling the stickers off and you know they don't do the rubik's cube properly the studies just get so so perverted to peel the stickers off and get the colors in the right place and and it's it's it's incredible to see through it now i mean when somebody now says to me you know in a thread or something you know some conversation well i'm a dietician i got idea you know yeah now that's that's terrible but again i did fine you said that you know with your friend there or chatting to this dietitian and i remember finding a um a forum full of dietitians who were saying look we've discovered this how are we going to go on you know what do we do we we don't have a job anymore and this wasn't even carnivore this they discovered keto and stuff and the fats weren't bad and that was enough for them it was just like whoa how do you do that and how do we go on and you know there's there's a dietitian in um one of our local hospitals who is quite renowned who have somebody said she needs one of those reversing warnings like you get on a lorry you know she can barely get she can barely get through a door and then i found this wonderful um article in the dietitians world or something which is called dietitians and their weight struggles and how you should still always listen to a dietitian if they're overweight because there's more factors and come on all right it's obviously something's going wrong with all the info that they've been fed and yet they still come up i mean the two second in aggression behind vegans as dietitians when they come on you tell well i am a qualified nutritionist or dietitian you go oh here we go you know and fruits and vegetables are essential and you get one of these threads and eventually it's like yeah okay whatever yeah but yeah the the standard education to me it's the real sad thing is the fear-mongering and the the horrible states i see people come to come to me too you know there was i used to do these kind of ancestral uh um diet and ancestral lifestyle chats at a local pub which has a big upstairs room and i had to do some talks every now and again a place where i i i know the landlord very well play a lot of gigs and i said can i get this room and we'll do regular sort of ancestral meetups get guests in get docs in get whatever and i was doing one one day and a friend of mine had said um i'm going to bring along a friend of mine and she's been under the same rheumatologist as you and this must have been about 2017 or something and and i left this guy's you know uh practice in in sort of 2011. he was the guy who got really angry and started frothing at the corner of his mouth and yeah when i wouldn't take the methotrexate and so i i thought well okay uh this will be interesting because she's been under this guy since about then and she came in and she was obviously in terrible pain it's like six years down the line and um i i said to her you know how are you getting on with this guy oh well you know how's your arthritis it's still there it's terrible and she said i'm on these meds um and she tipped out 17 meds onto the table that she got from all sorts of different departments because then she'd gone for the for the antidepressants because she was so uh depressed about it she had trouble with the liver she had diabetes and there was something i i forget all the things that she had developed since she'd seen this guy i mean you know i've got to chalk it up to him this guy really gave her a tremendous array of ailments it was it was beautiful he must be very proud with how he developed her illnesses you know and managed them perfectly into a flourishing set of comorbidities but it was shocking to me you know and and and she's still a good friend and she's got a son and i've been on his podcast and he's really up on this and so you know hopefully we'll we'll manage to turn this round properly um but she's uh she was a little bit uh addicted to her carbs so it was difficult but um it was horrifying to see what had happened the difference in staying with that guy for six years and being away from that guy for six years and i was jumping around doing this and then we had some ancestral movement guy in there and i'm sort of sitting around cross-legged on the floor and bending and stretching not i have one knee that's a bit dodgy from the time it was inflamed and it's nothing i i won't be doing my three hours a day in full lotus position ever again i don't think or or asked to the floor squats i don't think i i don't know maybe if i just stop being lazy with it and really work it but i might do it but there is some thickening of the synovium there that's causing a bit of an issue you know there's no inflammation but it's just kind of damaged but to see me doing that she's going how do you do that how do you even get on the floor how do you do you know it was a distant memory for her and and it's i i don't know i just think the terrible states that people get into with this polypharmacy if somebody comes to us to you know dr jeremy like we we we sort of confer a lot on cases and whatever and and and see these people that come to came or come to me or both of us and you must get him on the show by the way utterly brilliant dude 30 years he's spent you know doing these things and and fixing people outside the medical system comes from a sort of uh osteopathic and and uh and chiropractic naturopathic background but then into carnivory and everything but jeremy has wonderful so eloquent marvelous character beautiful beautiful healing um record he's got with people going back a long way but you know we see these people with this real polypharmacy and it's so much more difficult to fix them if you get somebody who comes along and goes i was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis last week my knee blew up last month or something it's like this will be easy you'll be fine you know but when you get somebody saying well i've got a lot of joint damage and i'm on all these meds and they've kind of harmed my liver and i've been on them 20 years but i've heard about this car and everything you're like yeah i can't promise you're going to have the body that you had 20 years ago now you know and the meds have done a lot of damage too so we've got a lot more to reverse than the condition you've got to reverse all the stuff that these these chemicals have caused and you know it's very sad it's very sad they stay on them all this time and you see you see these um facebook arthritis facebook groups i started my own one very recently it's a real mouthful it's called uh rheumatoid and psoriatic arthritis mitochondrial health and carnivory i was thinking how can i get it all into one title but it's great i got only about 1 500 people on there i think but it's nice to take it out of the carnival group and have them in there but i had to start it up because i got thrown out of every arthritis facebook group there is because suggesting for having the temerity to suggest you can heal this naturally i even got thrown out of the natural healing ones because you know you go to them and you see the first thing you see is their cover photo and it's all full of berries and plants and all these wonderful multi-colored eating the rainbow and all that and you start to mention underneath and then you get all this thing well everyone's different don't be so dogmatic and i'm going nut i'm not being dogmatic eat what you like when you've healed but just look at the plant toxins look at what this is doing look at what happens to the gut you know look at what happens when the gut heals look at the work of zafir at you know doctors of clemens of paleo medicine medicine or in hungary look at how they're healing the guts and testing it with these gut permeability tests that you know and and you can see as the gut heals the the the autoimmunity dies down whatever it is and plants will cause a leaky gut you can see no they don't you need fiber how do you even have you what you think i've been seven years yeah you know on a carnival diet and never been for a i was saying on on sean's podcast you know that that that my turds could be on the front cover of the of the of the glamour calendar for the bristol stool chart they're perfect i want to wake the missus up in the morning and go look at this crowd pleaser look at it man you know it's and after sort of years of dumping like on dr greger's daily dozen bowel movements diet you know i mean no it's it's just something tristan haggard said my friend or primal edge health you know he's brilliant a carnivore or whatever and he does the most amazing gregor impersonations you've got to check out his channel sometime and just he's so funny um but he's you know because he's got this his daily doesn't gregor you've got to eat these daily dozen toxins you know but tristan just calls it his daily dozen bowel movements because that's what happens you know but but after after that you know how the the the digestion comes online again but they're always like that you know and you get thrown out of these arthritis groups or even suggesting that an all meat diet would and i think it's such a shame because you know i made one of my youtube videos on my channel is you know why why can't arthritis facebook groups stop you healing because you know it's just they've got a little bit of knowledge that maybe the meds aren't so good but then you get them in them in the in the sort of awful support groups for the people on the meds and they're all on these biologics and all they're doing is posting pictures of incredibly swollen fingers like sausages and whatever and they're going and and i'm on remicade and i'm on this and i'm on that you know i think well if it's not working and it's costing you a fortune why but they've got no hope because these people say there is no hope yeah well and they also said it was like well imagine how bad it would be if you didn't take all this crap and you know and of course if they're doing whatever is precipitating your disease probably will get a lot worse too but you know is that i know sometimes sometimes the cure is worse than than the disease you know these people especially what you were talking about 17 medications that's that is something that you literally in first year medical school say don't go down this rabbit hole don't just go prescribing medications for the side effects of medications and medications and medications like you just go back to the beginning go like this is the wrong medication let's try to find something else or a different dose at least um well isn't it isn't the problem there that you've got too many departments in hospitals and they don't one doesn't know what the other one's doing so you know you get oh the liver is a problem now because of the methotrexate right you go to the the liver dude and then you go to this and then you go to that and they don't know what they've all prescribed and so it just gets it just gets mashed up i mean when are we gonna have a human body in department hospital you know because it all works hello it's all connected and it all works together yeah and it's like yeah well it usually falls on the gps you get this poor bastard gp where you know it's patient with just this laundry list of meds and they're supposed to rationalize their medication list but you know it's very hard for them to do because you know they're they're not specialists and they don't know exactly how important you know x y or z is and so it's difficult for them to you know take people off of these sorts of things and then you get you know too many cooks in the kitchen and you've got different people prescribing and stopping and starting different things and you've got this poor person in the middle just getting ping-ponged around and it's very difficult and that is something that that you have to be very very careful of in medicine and always try to keep people on the minimum amount of doses you know even i there are there are things that medications certain medications help with tremendously and i'm not ever going to say that that there isn't it's just that you know certain things that we treat are are better treated through lifestyle and diet in the specific ways that you know we've been talking about um then then the medication which is just a band-aid to you know just to deal with the symptoms as opposed to addressing the actual condition i just want to say uh you know go back to like the blood you talk about how you posted your bloods and so forth this is something i've seen i've been seeing just a couple of times recently in the comments of some of my videos so some people were saying not a lot but there was every now and then someone was just like you know some of the vegan people just saying oh this is you know like you know he they're like totally sick they look healthy but they're dying on the inside he won't even show his bloods and talk about his blood results how do you know i'm like commenting back i'm like who the hell ever said i wouldn't show my blood results i talked about my blood results all of all the time you know i have no problem talking about my blood results um i don't care what my bloods are because i live physiologically i live you know ancestrally and i eat a biologically species-specific and appropriate diet so i know that my body is going to be working as well as it can genetically so i'm fine but i have a friend of mine who's an endocrinologist here in perth and you know i've worked with him in his in his clinic and he doesn't know functional medicine bariatric medicine has been doing this for 40 years and had very very very good results and doing things in uh um you know doing fasting intermittent fasting and um ketogenic and non-ketogenic sort of things 40 years before all of this stuff and and having very good good results and i talked to him about carnivorism and so forth he was very very interested and you know we got into the details of it and he became more interested and so he said well you know look you look healthy you look good you know you're muscular and lean and so forth um well let's let's check the blood let's check under the hood and see what's going on and so he ordered this battery of of tests you're just testing absolutely everything and gave me a call a couple weeks later and just said hey you know we should uh we should talk about this carnivore diet over a steak sometime because your your bloods came back and they were they were very good and we should go through them and so you know i went in and we we talked about them and pages pages and pages of these things and you know and he looks at things in a very different way you know we look at generally how you have a reference range for a blood test is the first 2 000 people that come in that year that's your that's your spread and they who gets blood tests sick people generally and so you know and old people young people all these sorts of things and so you're getting you're getting a wide range of healthy and unhealthy people elderly and young and so that's not necessarily an accurate reference range for health for optimal health and so he goes by reference ranges looking at people that are 25 and healthy and and these and this is the range that that um that you see in those and in that cohort and so that's that's sort of what he bases his his uh metrics on so we're looking at that and he said that going through all my bloods that if he took 100 000 people my age off the street that my bloods would be number one without a shadow of a doubt and i was like yeah i figured you know and like said that the only thing you say was that you know your ldl is you know a little bit high and i'm like i'm happy with that it's that's good it's physiological and i'd explain that to him too and he's just like yeah so that's that's fine and you know my testosterone was just fine it was you know in in the range in the optimal range for a 25 year old you know so you know i you know and i'm you know i'm 40. so it's like you know this isn't um this isn't something that i've seen certainly and you know you talk about the you know the different carnivores and and different people well you know paul saladin was talking about how he his his testosterone dropped after about a year and a half on carnivore and then he reintroduced some fruit and honey car carbohydrates in a while after a while these things uh corrected i i just i just haven't seen that i haven't seen that in myself i haven't seen that in my patients i've seen the exact opposite i've seen people's uh estrogen levels and testosterone levels normalized i've seen them get better i've seen their growth hormone levels improve i've seen they're you know they say it's like saladin was also talking about like after um because he just came out with it with a post about why you should eat carbohydrates basically and fruit sugars and so forth and i just watched it and you know he was talking about you know you know different sort of biochemical processes in your kidneys and so forth that when you don't have carbohydrates that you end up wasting away more electrolytes this is why carnivores have electrolyte problems like i don't have electrolyte problems the inuits don't have electrolyte problems everybody in the in the ice ages and so forth you know at least were able to sustain a generational uh society that they got through 20 000 years of ice ages without any honey without any fruit so obviously you don't have to have carbs and i would argue that that carbs actually are a detriment you know especially fructose and so he's talking about you know magnesium and so forth and you're just you're losing this stuff and you get you get low levels well my magnesium level and zinc levels and and you know calcium so forth they were all perfect and and that's actually something that um uh dr rensberg was saying um that in australia the soil is actually quite poor in magnesium and zinc and so the plants aren't getting enough zinc and magnesium out of the soil so the animals that eat those plants aren't getting as much as they would either so almost everyone in australia is zinc and magnesium deficient i was not and so and i was only and i was eating carnivore and i have been eating carnivore far longer uh than than dr saladino has and so i think that there must be something else going on in his in his particular case um and then you know if he's seeing this with his patients and so he didn't mention it in the talk that i saw but you know if he is there might be something else going on it might be to do with the recommendations that he's giving i know he's very into organ meat and you know he has a line of uh liver uh supplements and so forth i don't know there's there is something to be said for that and you get hypervitaminosis a and this can you know suppress tsh and you can suppress your thyroid this is something that he and like other people have been saying oh you go carnival for a while your thyroid tanks these are all people that are pushing organ meats these are all people that are really pushing liver especially and you know when you think about the proportion of an animal that is liver compared to skeletal muscle it's hundreds of pounds of skeletal muscle to every one pound of liver and so you're simply not going to be you know eating liver in the amounts that we have it accessible to us today in the wild you know you're gonna have one percent of your meat maybe is going to be liver probably a lot less and so you know yes it's rich in vitamins but that therein lies the problem you know the classic one is a polar bear liver that has you know so much vitamin a it will kill you well you know these other things you know aren't going to kill you just by eating one liver but you keep eating you know a lot of liver half a pound of liver a day every day things are going to build up in ways that you don't necessarily want and i think that's part of it and there's other things going to be involved as well but i haven't seen that i certainly haven't seen that in myself um well you make you make such a good point there which is which is exactly the one that that sean made in response to paul saladino's thing well you know how big is the liver compared to an animal there you go yeah you know i mean i think it has its place and when somebody comes with a very leaky gut i really like the paleo medicine thing where they say try and get 400 grams in a week while you're healing just because most people who come in are that depleted but i i don't think past a certain point you really need to go and pile that stuff in um and it yeah it is interesting that it does seem to be causing problems when people have it too high in the diet um i i and thyroid i said that's interesting i mean i think a lot of the time these blood results are just a snapshot right i mean they can change day to day and particularly when somebody's healing and we don't know what the body's doing i think one of the classic examples of this is people you know with hashimoto's and so many women have hashimoto's at the moment particularly women and uh so many particularly have been vegan and vegetarian or on low calorie diets and all that kind of thing and you you get um you get this panic that because i think it was started by i forgot her name now but she's called the paleo mum and she put this thing out you know that if you if you go um keto then your thyroid tanks and it started off this real fear about it and what i've seen anyway in people is that quite often when they go keto um when they've got hashimoto's or something the thyroid levels go a bit crazy afterwards and and if they've if they've got uh a dog who's taking the blood they go oh you better get back on you better get back on some carbs that that almost killed you and then they start posting oh it almost killed my my my thyroid you know going keto never do that and then you go a couple of people i've had where it's same things happen but they haven't gone back and said well how'd you feel i feel fine so say well just give it a bit more and usually after two three months those levels balance out again you know and so the body's doing something that we don't understand and the endocrinologists don't understand and it's just a little snapshot it might have been totally different the next day and just because of that and somebody put out some fear-mongering about our ancestral diet you know don't eat what we're supposed to eat as a species because your thyroid will tank like all of those inuit and maasai you know who's thyroid tank so i think those they can be a bit misleading i also had another guy who um who who came to me and he said look you know since i've been going carnival i've got this the whole creatinine has gone up and my my doc's really worried and he thinks my kidney function's going down i think i'm going to die and all of that sort of thing i mean he'd be phoning me up literally a few times a day going i'm really worried about this i'm and then finally his doc did some research and said that you know these levels can change when you go on to a carnivore diet and it's okay it's all right and there's nothing wrong with his kidneys it's like he's going oh thank god for that do you know my doc's discovered this i said well i told you that ages ago it's not a problem there's no mechanism by which a fatty ruminant meat diet can blow your kidneys up there is no way there's a couple of ridiculous rat studies or something that show it but i mean you also make this point of of of the nutrients and and how they get through you know that great study with the oysters where they split people three people three groups of people they wanted to find out how the zinc levels shot up in in or increased in the body when you eat oysters and so they gave one group of people just oysters another group oysters and black beans and another group oysters and tortillas and the ones they all had the same amount of oysters and the ones who ate the the oysters on their own the zinc levels went up nicely oysters and black beans didn't go up so much oysters and tortillas no real raisins and zinc levels yeah and so it's like you know it's it's this old thing when vegetarians go just add a bit of chicken you know for a bit of nutrients and it doesn't work if you've got it with all your rice and pulses and stuff like that it's not going to do a damn thing yeah no that that's a yeah oh sorry um i was just going to say no that was that that was it really yeah okay yeah um i'm just going to say you're like that's a big thing there's a ton of different kinds of lectins and there there are some lectins you know it's a class of molecule there's there's a there are some lectins that meat they they don't seem to cause a problem but these lectins implants use it as a defensive sort of mechanisms they cause huge problems one of the problems are that they bind uh different nutrients and so when you eat this in combination with something that actually has some nutrition which plants you know generally have a lot less and that was a whole argument in the 80s i'm sure you remember you know they said oh you want to lose fat eat plants eat celery because it has less calories than you know there's less calories in that you'll get out of the the celery then you'll take to digest it so you'll actually lose calories so if you eat celery you'll actually be burning calories it's nonsense and so you know that that's one of the things though is that these lectins and and other properties in plants they actually bind to nutrients that you need and they make them unavailable and then it gets worse of course when you have um you know like gluten and so forth will will you know split these gap junctions in your cells and cause leaky gut and then all you know these lectins can get in your bloodstream and then it starts binding to things they're not they have no business binding to in your body and letting in bacteria and so forth and that's another thing you know we're talking about about nutrients um you know the the nutrition facts that are on the box generally mean nothing if it's a plant-based food item because they're just looking at you know you know for protein they look at actually total nitrogen which is not true crude nitrogen is not necessarily protein okay so you're just this is just nitrogen it's not necessarily a form of protein but they consider it that and so usually only a smaller percentage of that is actual protein but then it's like what what are the proteins because a lot of proteins in plants cannot be absorbed they cannot be broken down 80 percent of the protein in wheat is gluten and that is inaccessible to your body you cannot use that as a protein nutrient source all it does is screw up your gut and cause leaky gut and so you're like oh look i'm eating look at all this protein i'm getting no you're not you're not getting any of that crap and so you know it causes huge problems a these these nutrients are not bioavailable you know you're just saying oh it has this iron has this it has that your body's not absorbing that so that doesn't count you know you really can only you know when you're looking at meat all that stuff is bioavailable unless you eat it with a salad or with you know something like that you know or pasta or rice or whatever because you're eating these lectins and other sorts of factors that bind the pro the the new nutrients and so forth that you want it screws that up but if you're eating it you know meat on its own your body gets that you know after your guts healed and so forth you're you're going to get your predominant amount of nutrients and so forth from that you just don't from plants these things cause serious harm in your body as a poison and also with lack of nutrients and binding actual real nutrients and so forth so people don't don't realize just how multi-factorial bad these guys are you got your mic got some raging sorry can you hear me now yeah i got you yeah sometimes it takes a while to kick in this yeti might i see we've got the same sort of phallic yeti mic although mine is multicultural ah there you go yeah the um the um when you have autoimmunity you know i i mean there's a there's an old um saying about bipolar people isn't it they're like everybody else only more so and it's the same with it it's the same with autoimmunity you can you can feel what what goes on like i found that when i was really uh sick very flared up if i had like two mouthfuls or just a couple of fries i would feel it in the pain the next day but if i ate half a bar of chocolate i was fine and it's people get focused on the sugars which are not good but i think when you're autoimmune the the anything fibrous is is is way worse yeah i mean you know i'd eat a bit of broccoli and i would be in much more pain than if i ate um you know some some ice cream or something like the dairy is not that good but you know dark chocolate or whatever whatever even though it's got oxalates in it which i would definitely avoid these days having had the kidney stones from them from my juice i used to do these smoothies these healthy smoothies in the morning and what they used to consist of was a couple of avocados two packets of spinach almonds that i'd soaked overnight so they'd sort of liquidize and then a whole bunch of maybe coconut milk and a load of honey you know and to be honest because of that stuff it covered up the taste of the of the spinach and whatever or the enormous amount of calendar and it would actually taste pretty good like a like a bit of a milkshake but my god it was oxalate soup you know and that's that's what that's what caused the kidney stones like total overload i i did yeah um but but yeah when you're autoimmune you can feel something very very quickly um you know maybe not if you have a thyroid condition or ms or something like that it might not react so quickly it's kind of slower but when you've got arthritis it's it's excellent it's it's the best autoimmune condition to have to realize how bad foods are you know you know because you eat something like a bit of broccoli and you'll feel it and yet you eat some chocolate and you won't you know and it's it's definitely down to that some people say it's feeding the klebsiella lower down in the gut so you know chocolate's kind of gone high up in the gut it's absorbs those simple sugars but then when you get the the fibrous stuff further down into the gut carried down there then it feeds these klebsiella which are kind of associated with things like ankylosing spondylosis and whatever um and and iritis and all those kinds of things that go with it which is a horrific having had that five times you know that is uh one of the times when when uh modern medicine is great you want to get those steroid drops in right you know don't go and have a steak if you have our writers if you're at that stage when that's you know that can blind you go and go and do that but uh yeah so you know you can feel those fibrous things hugely and and and then when the guts healed you know that you you can have that i once in a blue moon i'll have some potatoes now it's the only vegetable that i have you know like a couple of christmases ago i think i've been totally carnival for about five years or something i thought you know what i remember how nice roast potatoes were so i'm gonna have a ton of them just with a load of butter you know like 50 50 with butter it's so nice it's the only vegetable that actually tastes nice it's potato and and so you know and still you've got to have a load of butter with them to make them taste really good and there was no reaction at all nothing whatsoever and i thought that's ace you know one mouthful of that like 10 years ago would have would have put me on the couch for ages but um yeah so that is uh that that's that's really i see it in my clients as well you know they go oh well you know broccoli is healthy though isn't it i can have that as long as i cut out chocolate and i go cut out both but if you're gonna have one have a bit of chocolate because it will hurt a lot less you know we just don't realize how horrific these things are yeah amazing it's it yeah i guess it's hard for people because people still think that just vegetables are good for you it's very hard to undo that because we just we've been told and brainwashed by our parents generally you know since since we were born the vegetables are good for you eat your vegetables and they you know they end up you know becoming a you know broken horse where they just they've broken down like okay they fought against it fought against it i hate broccoli i hate vegetables and then finally they're just broken like okay just tell me what to do and they're just this docile creature and and it's hard to undo that but you know it's um it is one of those things because and i think too because you know in the car in the in the keto uh range of people obviously you do eat vegetables and can eat vegetables and so that's one of the things that people because they think vegetables are so good for me they go keto and then they're like well i have to get my nutrition from vegetables they they're not realizing the meat is actually the nutrition and they think that's a trick some trick of nature you're tricking your body into thinking it's starving to death and somehow dying is helpful um it's not generally as a rule of thumb dying is is makes you dead and so um you know these people end up going keto with like a they'll start eating massive salads taking lots of vegetables and so forth and i think they harm themselves i think a lot of people when they get like a keto flu you know they could be you know detoxing from certain things and withdrawing from sugar i certainly see that show coffee as well and and then the tons and tons and tons and tons of vegetables and so forth like you're saying like oxalate soup and and these people just feel like crap for a while and i i don't really see any reason why they wouldn't i would feel like crap and you know when i do see when i get my patients and friends and so forth to go on carnivore and i just they just go pure carnivore not no artificial sweeteners so forth those things are nasty um i don't see them getting you know keto flu or something which doesn't make sense you know you you've done you've done fasting and so forth did you get the flu two days into fasting ever no and so you know yeah exactly and so you know the biochemical switch from running on you know blood sugar and having you know hyperinsulinemia going back to a normal metabolic state where your body can can mobilize and utilize your fat stores why would that make you sick why would that that give you an injury you know raise your interferon and so forth and make you feel fluid that doesn't make sense uh and it doesn't happen because people skip meals or fast or whatever you know every every you know practicing christian or practicing uh muslim every year for lent and ramadan would just just be have the flu for a month but they don't you know they actually feel better and you know everyone you have you have tons of studies showing that people feel better look better are better reverse diseases and so forth going on you know fasting and so forth and they you know mimic that by putting on a fasting mimicking diet which is just a ketogenic diet and so you don't see that and i think that you know part of that is going to be withdrawals um but i think a large part of that is that these people are just piling in the vegetables because they think that's where i got to get my nutrition as long as it doesn't have a carb it's good for me we had we people are so myopic we took it we look at one thing this is the end this is the cause of everything so before it was fat and you know cholesterol like that's it as long as it doesn't have cholesterol it's fine for you they had entamons you know you might remember those like coffee cake fat-free coffee cake just crusted in sugar i remember i was a kid my mom looked down like fat free these are fat free she got two of them and i was looking at that just like appalled it was like i was like okay that may be that may not have fat in it but there is no way that's good for you and and you know we had all this work there's a great one isn't it humans are the only people uh they're the only animals intelligent enough to make their own food yet stupid enough to eat it yeah yeah i mean yeah the the the whole keto thing is is weird because i mean there are some times where people seem to get an electrolyte thing going on and you know if they get cramps or whatever it's it's easily fixed in the early stages you just it doesn't seem to work when you put it on um on the food like i had a when when i just gone keto the one thing i did get was real um arrhythmias i mean it was really bad there was one point it was my heart kept on and on and on skipping and there was one point where i was walking around the local town with my missus and she's a nurse and it's the first time she got worried about me i was ridiculously skinny you know i was like 120 pounds or whatever and my heart was just going and he was missing every third beat and i thought i think i'm going to die here and so i actually went to hospital and they said um yeah we think you might be having a heart attack or whatever and so i uh i did they stayed they well they sort of got me in an ambulance blue lighted me to another hospital spraying this stuff under my tongue you know whatever and uh i got there and they said no no no it's not it's just some electrical thing and then they check your potassium and that's all they check and then they don't tell you anything and so i had scans on it 24-hour monitors whatever and they said yeah you do have this arrhythmia thing but um it seems to be one that's sort of associated with athletes they kind of have it when they're getting fitter and things we're not that worried um and i said well okay tell me whether i can go on holiday or something you know i i was going to go and hold it am i going i'm going to die on a plane or something um and i waited a couple of days and the head cardiologist phoned me up and i thought right i'm in trouble and in the meantime i discovered you know taking some um um magnesium and it seemed to calm it down a lot but then uh he phoned me up and i thought god this this is going to go wrong you know and he said well i looked at the scans he said you used to have these calcifications and yet your arteries are now clean and that you know when i went keto it just seemed to clean up the arteries i was in a mess you know late 40s like 12 years ago so i was in a mess you know i was a great big fat dude and sort of well i never got really fat i didn't even do that properly you know but i was fat i was fat for me and uh you know all sorts of metabolic things going on but it didn't i think it just took a while to balance out but so it stopped skipping so much but it was still skipping occasionally in the day um particularly when i was sitting there cooking or in front of the computer and so there is definitely an electromagnetic thing going on there but i figured out the magnesium but i hadn't figured out the salt and it was my son who was um a climber you know and and at the time he was doing a lot of climbing on climbing walls and whatever and he was cramping up and he said if you know i remember him coming in this door here and going have you not figured it he said you've got to take it in water it works totally differently he said i just take some salt i bang it in some water if i cramp up when i'm climbing it's gone five ten minutes later it's gone i can carry on climbing okay but i put loads on my food and he said no no you put it put it in your put it in your water and try it never had a problem since don't need to do it anymore but i did it for about a month and and it just every time it skipped i'd take some quite a lot of salt in water and it was fine and funny i've seen this again and it does do it that happens in the adaptation phase i just didn't know about it so i let it go on wrong and i think i had a horrendous electrolyte imbalance by the time but also you know i was pretty from my year of raw veganism and whatever before that so who knows what was going on in there but um i had i remember one guy came to me and he said well i'm all right you know it came from a consult and and uh we chat about a bunch of things but the only thing was that his legs were cramping up at night and i thought well to be honest he's doing everything right and the only thing is just add some salt and water and i thought i feel a bit um guilty charging him for that you know just you know we've just had a nice chat for an hour or so and yet all i've told him to take some salt in water and then i got this call and he said that was so miraculous i've sent you double the money you're joking okay the guy was pretty well off so i didn't feel bad about it you know he had a big business in the local town here but it was just that fixed his cramping up in bed you know and if it does happen that little tweaks like that can be can be very useful but to most people it doesn't happen at all you know they're fine and certainly this keto flu thing i think you're right you know the body's dumping some other stuff and also as you burn fat obviously um you know there's a load of toxins that the body stores in fat right and they start circulating again so um you know that's why it's often i think that when people go keto they get these um oxalate dumps and kidney stones or whatever there was some facebook posts wasn't there where somebody was asking about that where it was your post or mine about the last chat and saying that everything's blamed on oxalates and it is i mean we get all these crazies don't we oh it's all blamed on on on you know carbs and then it's all blamed on oxalates and then it's all blamed on deuterium for a while jack crews started on with this deuterium thing and so everything that went wrong with everybody was blamed on deuteronomy yeah it's a combination of all of these things we have that mindset don't we have the one problem and the one thing to fix it that we get we get brainwashed with and it carries on into the stuff into the natural healing and that's why i you know i love looking at people's uh issues and diet is the most spectacular it is amazing when you do change the diet the the the honestly the symptoms you know and it's just beautiful to see them go and then there's things to to to sort of mop up those little polishing techniques and you get people uh like a guy yesterday you know and he had he has all sorts of uh neuropathy and he has um psoriatic arthritis and and other things guy was talking to a lovely dude and he's just you can see his mood coming up his mood coming up and then suddenly he i found out right he's a trader and he's in front of the screen you know and and and he's still getting this neuropathy and he's still getting sort of agitated and really wound up and is his stress is not coming from how much he hates his work it's because of how much he loves it now it's too exciting you know and so it's chronic stress still but he's also got that blue light all day and i just said we'll just put iris on the computer get it get iris tech on there it takes out the blue light you know and it stops the flicker as well which can be very damaging and neurologically you know um and and he immediately went my god it just feels like a totally different experience looking at my screen you know i look at somebody's normal tv i mean we even have an orange screen over our tv here because the kids won't wear the blue blockers um and it's it's funny isn't it as as as a somebody who advises people on stuff like this it's very difficult to make any money because you can't do all the supplements and stuff i mean finally i thought somebody came to me and said oh you've got a big reach in the carnival world will you sell these dried supplements you know like sean like like sorry sean sorry about that like saladino does and i remember sean actually on twitter saying why don't you just go back to selling supplements and dog food did you see that one i was funny and i put this picture up underneath of these two really fat women just fighting with gloves on i don't think saladino found it very amusing but but you know and and so you can't do anything so somebody came to me you know with these all these products of mixed desiccated organ meats and liver and blah blah i thought yeah finally for people who can't face the liver they want to do that maybe it's something i can sell you know that'll be okay and he sent me some supplements and you know what they just felt wrong in the body i don't know what it was and then i i had a chat with um on online with um um chabat at paley medicina and sophia and i said look they all say that there's no nutrient damage in this and they're all fine it's just like the real thing is that right and they went nah come on you know no it damages stuff i mean it's processed food isn't it is it anything that's processed that we're mucking about with so i thought well i can't even sell them so what what can i do what i sell is blue blockers that's not the only thing that a carnivore sort of health coach can sell um apart from the knowledge and that's great that's fine by me because it takes that simplicity like my autoimmunity course the subtraction course just telling people how to get off that pin and not take the aspirin for the pain you know it's it's uh it's it's so miraculous it's taking the stuff away but yeah i i agree with you about the processed stuff i i think that i think i think those desiccated organ meat supplements i think they're a bit of a waste of time as well you know if you're not brave enough to eat a bit of liver maybe your body's telling you you don't need it or maybe just man up and do it and whatever you know but just nah no pills can't be asked with them yeah that's my big thing with with uh supplements is you know if you need to take supplements to get basic nutrition then by definition your diet is deficient and a carnivore diet isn't and you know if you i go a lot by taste as well like you say you know if you're if you're rejecting liver you maybe your body doesn't want it raw liver tastes very different from uh cooked liver as well i found it actually tastes good i i actually like raw liver that's something adele davis he was one of the early nutritionists in the early 1900s you know she wrote several books on nutrition she actually was way ahead of her time and one of one of the big things that she she came back to regularly was raw liver and and seemed to help quite a lot of people and she actually was already subtracting things out like okay well people are having problems with certain things well let's what are you eating a lot of well let's take that away let's take that away let's take that away let's see what happens and then see how you're doing we'll add it back in and then people actually have big reactions to it you know because as we see in carnivore community and i'm sure you know certain ketogenic uh people that have eliminated something from their body for a long time they don't have the same tolerances that they had and then when they reintroduce this after several weeks or months they can feel a bigger effect and part of that is the contrast you're just you're feeling healthy now for the first time in your life and now this is making you feel less healthy and you can see that whereas before you had so much stuff going on in your system you just always felt like crap but you called that normal and now you actually feel normal you actually feel great and and now that's bringing you down so you can see that but also because you you don't have as many you know uh defenses and so forth and tolerance is built up for these sorts of things so it could ostensibly hit you harder and so she she found this as well that you reintroduce these things and people get slammed with them okay avoid that thing whatever that was just stay the hell away from it um i found that if you if you slice up liver and like salt it and put it on dragons i i don't know you know some people see my videos but i take my steaks i wet age them and then i'll cut them up in the steaks and i'll salt the outside and i'll put it on drying racks where they're not touching you can't have them touch or they'll have moisture and bacteria growth but something that alton brown you know celebrity chef talked about and that my mom picked up she loves loves cooking and i just started picking up and i now that's all the only way i eat meat is like i'll salt it and leave it for at least a day if not several days and it'll dry out more it'll brown so much better it'll cook so much better it tastes so much better and i did that with liver and after just a day or two it tasted better than any piece of liver i'd ever had in my entire life and then after several days it started turning more dry and started getting like this gummy texture to it it was like like gummy meat and like that sounds disgusting even to me but like i loved gummy candies that was my favorite candies growing up and all of a sudden i'm eating like gummied meat and i just loved it i'm like oh my god this is amazing and so that taste was was a good response for me but you know after a little while i was like it was it was nice to sort of do that but eventually i was just kind of like yeah that's enough i didn't i didn't really want anymore and um and that was it my six-year-old you know who he met and and he used to just you could give him a whole plate of liver and he'd ask for more yeah you know so now it's like no nothing yeah he's had enough his body's just had enough of it yeah yeah yeah and that's how taste goes you know when i when i'm eating a steak you know when i'm hungry when i haven't eaten it's the best damn thing i've ever had in my life because my body wants those nutrients so i'm getting that positive feedback and as i keep going it just tastes slightly less good slightly that's good and it eventually gets the point where it's like really not enjoying this anymore that's why i generally tell patients how to gauge how much to eat especially if they have had you know very differing portions some people not eating enough some people eating more than they should and so that to readjust their portions they need to learn how to listen to their body and one of the main things is is listening to the taste and i've certainly noticed that with liver and you know since then i you know i haven't really felt the need to get any more liver i just i bought it once um i've and people keep asking oh you have to organize you have to do this no not really you don't you can't if you want to but you don't need it and i can count on the fingers of one hand the amount of times that i've eaten liver in the last 20 years that i've been doing carnivore off and on and i can count on the fingers of two hands how many times i've ever had liver in my entire life hands down i don't take any supplements i don't take you know any any pills or or certainly don't take any any hormone supplements and so forth all that was fine and i don't even need to take um vitamins and magnesium and zinc even though i'm going a zinc and magnesium deplete country everything's just fine and so and i don't eat liver either and i've been doing this a lot longer than people like you know dr saladino has so i don't know why he's seeing the issues that that he is generally when i see patients struggling with um carnivore you know early on you can have some some you know electrolyte sort of imbalances and you can sort of give a bit of supplementation at that point but you can test for these things you can see if that's what's going on they say oh my magnesium's probably low let's test your magnesium it's not low okay so that's not it and then you know move on from there but you know generally those sorts of things like the cramping i generally find that you get a bit of that in the beginning and then sort of normalizes uh afterwards and it sounds like you did as well i even got a bit of cramping um for a bit and then like i went to you know the tropics i was in bali and i was just getting outrageous cramps in my calves like every night and i did the same thing i put a bit of salt in a thing of water and i just drank it it would calm down i could go to sleep but that happened every night for like three days and then it caught and then my son my son who um told me about that now lives in bali oh yeah yeah well yeah you need to know it there you know like you know people go you know like the you know brits and so forth would be traveling through the tropics you always have these little salt tabs and things like that so you know putting your water to help with cramping and so forth and um yeah and that's it you know i've never had to to supplement you know the people that you know i you know work with and so forth they don't need to either and they don't they don't seem to get these problems and so i i don't i don't know what saudina would ha has i don't know what's going on differently there um but you know you know what i think it is you know what i think it is i mean i used to listen to tons of his podcasts and they're absolutely fascinating how he goes through the science and whatever i can't take in more than 10 of it i just sort of listen to stuff and i go ah maybe that's why that worked in practice you know all i see is things working in practice and it's very very simple and to me it's it's about i don't wanna what there's a video on it on my youtube channel about is eating only meat boring or something um and it's about how when you refine your tastes when it goes from wanting all the time you want pizza and chips or ice cream basically because you know that combination of fat and carbs that doesn't happen in nature that is hyper palatable and and away it goes you know you can't stop eating them but once the tastes have refined you start to get really interesting things like i'll have a day where i'm totally averse to beef but i really want lamb yeah and vice versa or i'll have a day and it doesn't happen so often where i go do you know what we need some oysters you know we'll have a great big oyster binge you know and just eat them all raw and then i'll end up with a really bruised hand you know from opening the damn things and i'm going right i'm not doing that again for a while they're too much hard work for what you get out of them but something in me tells me i need that and sometimes i just i used to eat eggs every day right but not anymore i don't like the whites i think they're very inflammatory particularly for people with any any autoimmunity they can be very very painful and the yolks can even in the early stages but there it's great nutrition in there and every now and again i just want some yolks and and i have this feeling that i just need a ton of egg yolks over some burgers that i'll grill you know that i'll make up from some ground beef or whatever and then i don't want them for a while and you get that sort of subtle uh taste where where where you've got rid of the the the mad frenzy for carbs and and fat combination but you just kind of know what type of meat you want and i've got too much liver in the freezer now and we just hardly ever get it out but you know like once every couple of months i'll go yeah i need some liver and and i'll cook some up and the first bit is great you know and that's fine and then i kind of leave them in the fridge and just eat a couple of bites like a carnivore biscuit while i'm cooking something else you know and then after a couple of days where it's been in there and i go do you know i just don't want anybody anyone wanting for the sliver now we don't want any more you know i've had enough you know and it ends up you know either force yourself or just throw it away and it's the only meat i ever throw away because you don't you don't get the wastage that you get on plant foods do you you know but if they're giving you too much of a big pack of liver and you cook it all at once the first little bit is fine you think yeah my body wanted that for that day but after you know it it is it's just the the refinement that that sort of subtle to the subtlety that we've lost in our taste where we just want something that just blasts us you know something with enormous amount of um sugar or something else horribly addictive but um yeah once you've been carnival for a while don't you find you know people come along and they go oh i can't give that up i could never give that up or this or that or whatever it is they're addicted to and you go well you'll see down the line see what happens and sort of 30 days they'll be going oh i've got such good um results over it that i i i don't really i don't really crave it so much anymore but i still crave this and that 90 days in they're like yeah there's two or three things i could still maybe have some time but i'm not bothered because of the amazing results but the rest of those things i don't even think about them anymore you know it's sort of refined the taste and i think that's one of the most magical things about it it puts you much more in touch with what our taste is supposed to be yeah i found the same thing and you know to the point that i have you know friends that have you know since gone carnivores sort of danced back and forth with it uh the other family uh friend of mine in particular um was always very meat based but ate all the rest of the crap too and then he you know he tried carnival for a while and that you know was having fantastic results because you know his the rest of his family weren't really on board with that and so he sort of slipped off of that and he likes you know he likes the odd drink and so forth and so i think that's a lot of things that sort of pull people off of it as well as they start they start drinking and they start sort of saying yeah well what else can i do well it's not that big a deal and it's sort of a slippery slope but he um you know i was talking to him one day and i was saying i was making some ribs i was smoking some ribs he was like oh yeah you know i've got this great recipe you got this rub and you go do this and have this sauce and do that and i'm just getting horrified i'm getting more and more horrified and this guy in my in my head i'm like stay the hell away from my meat and because i i really enjoy and impr and appreciate just the taste of the meat itself and so like when i get ribs i'm like looking forward to the ribs not the sauce and the seasonings i i don't want that stuff that's going to mask the taste that i want my ma literally my mouth is watering right now i'm thinking about that and you know and i just said like uh yeah no i think i'm gonna go without a rub and uh sauce he's like oh yeah you're just gonna go without flavor i'm like buddy if you're if you the only flavor you're getting out of ribs is the sauce and the seasoning like what the hell are you eating the rib just you know just just just have a mouthful of this sauce that's all you want you know you're obviously cooking pretty poor quality ribs if you have to mask the flavor with all this crap just eat the damn meat and so like i just really enjoy the taste of meat and and like you say i i you know taste is what it's supposed to be you can get these subtle nuances of what your body wants and that this tastes better than that and so you just naturally do it nature is natural you just you just automatically do it if you're eating what you're supposed to be eating you can actually listen to your instincts which is wild because normally people say like no no no you have to leave the table hungry you know you never eat enough always be all these sort of things like that doesn't make any sense and you know they say like well when people like eat in times of abundance then you store fat so that you go these you know fast you know fast and feast sort of things and like yeah that's that could happen but you know you look historically and quite a lot of the time people had food you know abundance of food access to food all year round you know the early you know cavemen and so forth they were running herds of of mammoths over cliffs and they were just dashing themselves to death at the bottom they were not you know poor on nutrition you know they dry this stuff and you know probably make you know a version of pemmican that the native americans did and they'd have they'd have this meat the rest of the damn year and they probably had a ton of wastage you know they probably just had so much they had nothing to do because they could just run another elephant over the over a cliff big deal and um and eat again for the month so there are these people that that had an abundance of food there was a you know they looked at different people and if you if you measured wealth by the amount of work and time and effort that you have to put in to getting what you need to eat and to live and to maintain life if you if you have that as a measure of wealth they found that native american tribe on the on the columbia river in washington state in eastern washington was the wealthiest civilization to have ever lived because they had these weirs set up these nets all across the columbia river and they would catch these big 90-pound salmon constantly and so they didn't work they had nothing to do they just every day they just got up and just pulled out a bunch of fish and ate it they their entire life was leisure the entire civilization their entire life from birth to death was leisure and these they they didn't have to work for their food and so forth it was always provided and so that's not right uh you know so you didn't necessarily have to just eat all this stuff so you know you do have a natural off switch you we have a thing called satiety and people have experienced it like i'm full and so if if that theory was right that you know you just you're just always going to be ravenously hungry so that you can build up a big fat store so that you can survive days and weeks without food well you wouldn't ever stop being hungry would you but people are and when you're and when you're eating naturally you just naturally just i don't want to eat anymore um you know people think about this um you can think about this in context of you know we see in nature cows stop eating grass at a certain point you know they know when to stop you don't see all these old bees there's a lot of grass in fields tons of it i've seen it and so you know they just keep eating grass until they just you know just popped but they don't they mean they're they're lean and strong animals lions they take down a big you know buffalo or even an elephant and so forth you know they they think that all these animals in the wild they're working out all the time and they're and they're exercising all the time and they're and they're they're very food deprived not not male lions you know they generally do f all and you know they involved in the hunt and so forth but generally they're around for for defense of the of the pride but they get first cut of whatever they killed so they go for they get the lion's share they generally go for the belly fat which has you know the belly meat that has the most fat they they people say oh they go for the organs do they there's a lot of fat fat in the abdomen there's a lot of fat around the organs and so forth that's where the most fat is is in the abdomen and so i think that yes they eat the organs but i bet you they're getting a lot of fat with that as well that's probably the driving force there um king line gets to eat before anything else gets to touch that thing and you'll see in in these videos 20 lions in a circle around it's just they can't wait to go in there the eyes are just like oh my god i just want to get in there and they're not moving because you know daddy's going to mess them up if they get near his plate and so king lyon could just gorge himself until he puked but he doesn't he ends up going to a point he just goes like yeah i'm done rest of you kids can come in and then they do and they pile into it why don't you see fat lions why don't you see you know big fat pudgy male lions you know they say oh well they work out so much they're running around in the water no nobody brings them any haagen-dazs afterwards where you get that extra stomach yeah well exactly you know because they're they're eating what they're supposed to be eating and their body tells them yeah i'm done i don't need to do this anymore and people say like well it's just because they're in a wad they're running around all the time they're exercising all the time well first of all we know with the messiah that they did studies in the 80s that these guys looked like they were like olympic champions they were just ripped and yet they only worked out and exercised 1.6 times more than the average american which in the 80s was very you know um you know stagnant lifestyle really wasn't doing too much but you know you you can you think about it more um you know more directly they say you know well these animals in the wild they're just they're they're they're always lean because they're exercising all the time and exercise is what makes you lean you know like as you know obviously you have to exercise and do cardio to get abs right it has nothing to do with anything else it's purely exercise and that's how you get your fat down wrong because that does not explain animals in the zoo you know animals in the zoo live in a box the size of a small apartment and they live there their entire lives as the definition of a sedentary lifestyle and yet they don't they you know they don't get fat they they get ripped they look like they're on steroids and you know unless they're giving them carbs and grains and crap like that most zoos will not do that most zoos give animals what they eat in the wild and as you can ask any zookeeper that knows what the hell they're doing if you feed an animal something that it doesn't eat in the wild something that didn't evolve on it gets sick and it gets the same things that we do is that heart disease liver disease diabetes cancer obesity you know autoimmune disorders arthritis and so forth same with dogs and cats eating grain and plant-based kibble and same with us eating grain and plant-based kibble it's all the same thing it's all toxicities and poison from a species inappropriate diet and if you eat a species-appropriate diet you will naturally eat less you will naturally monitor and restrict your calories to what your body's asking you for you know and i think and taste has a lot to do with that and i think that uh like you say i've been pretty amazed by that as well that might you know my taste which is adhered for ignored uh sense you know one of your five main senses people are just like oh that's that's for my enjoyment only you know um no that mean that thing does a lot of work and i've really uh yeah i've really found a new appreciation for that as well oh yeah i mean you see all of these people with fat pets and you just know what's going on they're eating biscuits yeah that's it you know and then and then the vets say you need to give them some more exercise i've seen one of my neighbors once and he was sort of dragging this barrel-shaped dog with these tiny little legs that could hardly reach the ground around the park saying oh the vets told me it needs more exercise come on you can't even walk it's not going to get any exercise the damn thing's so fat what are you feeding it and he goes all the biscuits you're feeding it those those horrible dog biscuits and all that crap aren't you and he goes yeah well why don't you actually feed it what it's supposed to eat and see what happens i never thought of that he said it's weird man i mean we just got this little cat and he was sitting on top of the drums packed up there just before we went on but he's run off and done something else now but um he you know he's just raw meat and he's just fantastic i'll be amazed if we ever have to take him to the vet you know right he's had nothing nothing but raw meat i mean we did make a mistake and give him uh lamb and beef to start with and uh he was he was getting all the runs and stinking the house out and then i suddenly thought hold on a minute why am i being so stupid this is a cat right we it doesn't get rabbit starvation we do this is a this is an obligate carnivore we're facultative carnivores we're mostly like lipivores really aren't we fat divorce as humans but this cat it doesn't do well with all that fat so as soon as i put him back on chicken and rabbit and small things you know then he's absolutely fine you know it just turds don't even smell you know you don't know when he's done one that is fantastic but i mean animals just don't eat you give that cat a bit of broccoli it's not going to eat it you know we have a we have a corn snake and you give it a you know something something even a piece of even a piece of meat you won't eat it but it's got to be a whole animal you know these creatures are not stupid enough they'll they'll eat exactly what they want to eat what they're designed to eat you know yeah and we need to get back to that this is what we do you know in it when we um with our work in in the human unleashed really and the red pill stuff it's just showing how much all of our ancestral stuff has been covered up you know that ancestral model doesn't work for everything you know it doesn't work if you know somebody's got anaphylactic shock or something yeah and you go right well you know have a bit less screen time no you know you you need some steroids there or something you need to bring that down but if you've got uh if you've got somebody with all these layers of things wrong we just don't even know because we've been fooled for so long and and to take all these things away and just give somebody the real appreciation of that because you don't have to give up you don't have to go live in a cave you can give up you know you can you can get your light cycles right by getting out in the morning without first getting on your phone and getting it like the natural light wherever it is get grounded every now and again you know do a little bit of exercise do some do some high intensity interval training do a bit of lift some weights and then go lie down have a big steak lie down chill out you know and some people i think well most people now have got they're not even um i was thinking about that when you were talking about the guys who just you know catch the salmon they don't have to do much and most people can't even be with themselves anymore they don't they don't have the ability to to to just hang out you know what i like the most is going out carp fishing and i'll i'll i'll go for like 24 hours at least and just sort of mid-day to midday and i'm out all night and i sleep there in a bivvy and the rods are on bite alarms all night and if i get a fish it wakes me up but i like these difficult lakes where you don't get woken up too much you know but when you do it's a monster and that kind of thing and just to be able to sort of wake up in the middle of night and see just natural light and see the stars see the moon and see and just be content with that and most people aren't most kids have never seen that you know they're just in a screen all the time they've never seen them been out at night they've never walked in the woods at night they've never and we've become so disconnected from all of these things and all of these things are so healing you know when you when you add them up and you don't have to lose all your technology just learn how to use it in better ways you know if you have your laptop on your laptop plugged in so that don't have it on wi-fi so that it's sort of frying your balls you know don't don't do stuff things like that you know you have to take breaks between it get the light right get your stress down eat a carnivore diet and it's just it's very rare where you see something that doesn't unwind you know i i'm kind of sad at the moment because you know as i told you i'm off down to my best friend's funeral yeah and he was he was just you know all his life he was just one of these guys who could do anything and he was muscular and ripped you know he looked amazing this dude if you think of sort of a more attractive version of patrick swayze you know that's kind of what he looked like you know he was always very annoying that he'd eat anything and just stay really ripped but he caught up with him in a different way and he got this als thing and just absolutely wasted away and i didn't you know i i i remember asking around asked sophia paleo medicina have you ever had any success with this she said it's the one thing we've really not had success with and um you know and uh uh jack crews you know i told him about it and he said yeah probably you could but you'd have to do everything right for every moment of the day he said you'd have to be somewhere completely stress-free by the sea you know in the sun being grounded all the time never doing a damn thing wrong getting exactly the sun you need exactly the sleep you need exactly the food you need and that's very very difficult to do to put yourself in that situation but it was a it was a difficult one to to see him sort of this sort of real powerful muscular dude end up you know really wheelchair bound and sort of stick thin um but but he was and and he was he just knew all about this stuff you know he knew all about it but it was too much for him but it was too late for his body uh but unless you've got something like that which i think is is is is is one of the maybe the most terrific things you know all sorts of things are manageable like i was thinking the other day when my friend andrew scarborough sent me something um about how he's being hassled at work by all these horrible you know mandates and whatever and he works for the nhs here but andrew had glioblastoma and he did have the the operation and then he's controlled it since with a with a carnivore diet oh great and he was going and you you should have a chat him as a neurosurgeon i think you you'd find some great stuff to chat to he's pretty well known out there there's a load of interviews with him and whatever he's he's pretty young he's 36. um i met him a few years ago when i was at the uh biohacking summit doing a a a chat with jack cruz um with him on the stage send me a send me his information yeah that'd be cool yeah yeah yeah but i mean you know i think i think i was thinking about that you'd have a real interesting chat with him so i believe there's another guy who's who's reversed it with um without having the surgery at all um because you were saying you know sometimes it pops up in other hemispheres and whatever yeah you know even if you cut it out and obviously if you don't change your your lifestyle it will do but i think when people have something like that they're so terrified they'd be very terrified to go down the natural route but sophia and sharba they've got results with with brain tumors you know they're reversing them or at least stopping them you know on this their paleolithic ketogenic diet as they call it the you know very high fat um carnivore diet and uh people are sort of making inroads into that but but andrew is very knowledgeable about all of that and and he'd be great to chat to you know uh he's he's a good guy he's done it he's got a lot of stuff out there i'll i'll send you his contacts i'll hook you up on facebook or whatever but um yeah i i think that pretty much anything any lifestyle disease autoimmunity metabolic stuff this will nail it so you know if anybody's listened to this and um i'm definitely going to put this one up in my um in my arthritis group so guys if you know if you're listening to this here look you know it's not just it's not just some daft old drummer here who's saying that here's a dude who understands about this stuff and he's been at it for like 20 years or so so you know uh i think i i think it would just be lovely when it comes down to mainstream you know and uh but will it it's just the corporations isn't it and yeah this is what we're trying to uncover in the red pill stuff the history of how diet's gone wrong and how it's been covered up for religious spiritual reasons to sort of make people suggestible and weak and any sort of rulers you've seen the rulers and then they feed all their their slaves grain and they're all in there eating all the meat you know they know it's fine and the slaves they can eat this this crap you know and this is how it's been done over the happening again and you know old bill gates and he's pushing his plant-based crap and all of these corporations are and this is this is how it's um this is how it's happened and i think at the moment i think with all the sort of hoaxes going on and i won't get your channel pulled down by getting into those subjects now but you know it's it's it's obvious that we need to make a make a stand for me because they're all the pandemics and that they're faking and and uh you know among the livestock as well um you know obviously i would never suggest that uh our present situation is a hoax wash my mouth out but you know um that's what we're trying to do and we've got a book coming out called the the sequel to the red pill revolution which was more general of how this has happened the red pill food revolution and honestly i think it's a beast it's all five of us contributing to it and ben writing it up and hunt so it's it's it's graham norbury and uh dr jeremias john gusty and me and i think we've really nailed it in this one it's sometimes something just touches you where you know like you get monty python which was great but then suddenly they did the life of brian which was came from god i think it was it was just inspired and i think this is our version of this where we've just nailed it with this book and we just keep looking at going wow that is really good and and you know ben's really modest and and and he just sort of put up privately so i'll embarrass him here we said i think this is the best book i've ever read let alone written and i think i think you're right i think we just sort of got that right combination of coming at it from all the different angles and i just love it when i see somebody like you speaking out because you know you you um with letters after your name and stuff like that it's uh it just inspires people so much and you bring people in so much more and uh brilliant so you know let's carry on let's get this crap blown up shall we yeah well hey i i really appreciate you coming on how can people get in touch with you how can they find your work oh thank you um well my website is called pureactivityoneword.net and um i'll send you this stuff for the show notes but illfillscott.com apparently goes to it and that's my my website with um with consults and blogs and this and that um all sorts of stuff on there but my youtube channel just under phil scott has a lot of carnival stuff on it and um autoimmune issues uh sort of hopefully with some ideas about those and um i have a a course an online autoimmunity course called the subtraction method that you can find through my sort of facebook groups and whatever and then where i met anthony here my 100 carnivore and beyond group which is a nice irreverent one we don't throw people out for posting pics of broccoli we just might take the piss a bit you know yeah but it's not strict and we deal with other stuff beyond carnivory two other ancestral disconnects and but what i'm really proud about at the moment is uh is this work i'm doing with the with the other guys with um with john gusty and ben hunt and graham norbury and jeremy ayers and it's uh it's the redpillrevolution.com and we have our books there and we have we do all sorts of chats that would get uh my youtube channel pulled down and we do discussions on this lunacy that's happening at the moment but then our sort of sister project the human unleashed where we have hundreds of hours of videos on god knows what and loads of all the health stuff and um q a's every week for members and that kind of thing and and we have a lot of fun on there too you know none of this is very serious um well we're dealing with very serious issues but we have a lot of fun between us and get on real well so you know we're going to have to get andrew on there as well to talk about about some of the things that you can't talk about too much in public and he teased me with some of them last time off air and i've i've i've excited the boys about that as well so maybe we'll sneak him on there to talk about some naughty stuff but yeah so that's that's where you can find me really but you know put my name in google or youtube it'll probably come up perfect great well thank you very much i really appreciate you coming on i said honor man thank you so much i realized just how long we've gone on wow it just flies yeah cool thank you so much thank you appreciate it